actualiteitsforums  

Ga Terug   actualiteitsforums > ACTUALITEITSFORUM > Pro of Contra?
Gebruikersnaam
Wachtwoord
Home FORUMS Registreer Arcade Zoeken Posts van vandaag Markeer Forums als Gelezen

Bekijk Resultaten Peiling: Zijn deze getuigenissen echt of gaat het om hersenspinsels van Michael Moore?
Pure propaganda van Michael Moore 2 33.33%
Oprechte getuigenissen van Am. piotten 4 66.67%
Stemmers: 6. U mag niet stemmen in deze peiling

Antwoord
 
Onderwerp Opties Zoek in onderwerp Waardeer Onderwerp Weergave Modus
  #1  
Oud 6th October 2004, 01:17
Barst's Avatar
Barst Barst is offline
Administrator
 
Geregistreerd op: Jun 2004
Locatie: L'burg
Posts: 16,562
Poll: Verzinsels van Michael Moore of niet?

Dear Mike, Iraq sucks

Civilian contractors are fleecing taxpayers; US troops don't have proper equipment; and supposedly liberated Iraqis hate them. After the release of Fahrenheit 9/11, Michael Moore received a flood of letters and emails from disillusioned and angry American soldiers serving in Iraq. Here, in an exclusive extract from his new book, we print a selection

10/05/04 "The Guardian"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: RH
To: mike@michaelmoore.com
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2003 4:57 PM
Subject: Iraqi freedom veteran supports you
Dear Mr Moore,

I went to Iraq with thoughts of killing people who I thought were horrible. I was like, "Fuck Iraq, fuck these people, I hope we kill thousands." I believed my president. He was taking care of business and wasn't going to let al Qaeda push us around. I was with the 3rd Squadron, 7th Cavalry, 3rd Infantry division out of Fort Stewart, Georgia. My unit was one of the first to Baghdad. I was so scared. Didn't know what to think. Seeing dead bodies for the first time. People blown in half. Little kids with no legs. It was overwhelming, the sights, sounds, fear. I was over there from Jan'03 to Aug'03. I hated every minute. It was a daily battle to keep my spirits up. I hate the army and my job. I am supposed to get out next February but will now be unable to because the asshole in the White House decided that now would be a great time to put a stop-loss in effect for the army. So I get to do a second tour in Iraq and be away from those I love again because some guy has the audacity to put others' lives on the line for his personal war. I thought we were the good guys.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Michael W
Sent: Tuesday July 13 2004 12.28pm
Subject: Dude, Iraq sucks

My name is Michael W and I am a 30-year-old National Guard infantryman serving in southeast Baghdad. I have been in Iraq since March of 04 and will continue to serve here until March of 05.

In the few short months my unit has been in Iraq, we have already lost one man and have had many injured (including me) in combat operations. And for what? At the very least, the government could have made sure that each of our vehicles had the proper armament to protect us soldiers.

In the early morning hours of May 10, one month to the day from my 30th birthday, I and 12 other men were attacked in a well-executed roadside ambush in south-east Baghdad. We were attacked with small-arms fire, a rocket-propelled grenade, and two well-placed roadside bombs. These roadside bombs nearly destroyed one of our Hummers and riddled my friends with shrapnel, almost killing them. They would not have had a scratch if they had the "Up Armour" kits on them. So where was [George] W [Bush] on that one?

It's just so ridiculous, which leads me to my next point. A Blackwater contractor makes $15,000 [£8,400] a month for doing the same job as my pals and me. I make about $4,000 [£2,240] a month over here. What's up with that?

Beyond that, the government is calling up more and more troops from the reserves. For what? Man, there is a huge fucking scam going on here! There are civilian contractors crawling all over this country. Blackwater, Kellogg Brown & Root, Halliburton, on and on. These contractors are doing everything you can think of from security to catering lunch!

We are spending money out the ass for this shit, and very few of the projects are going to the Iraqi people. Someone's back is getting scratched here, and it ain't the Iraqis'!

My life is left to chance at this point. I just hope I come home alive.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Specialist Willy
Sent: Tuesday March 9 2004 1.23pm
Subject: Thank you

Mike, I'd like to thank you for all of the support you're showing for the soldiers here in Iraq. I am in Baghdad right now, and it's such a relief to know that people still care about the lemmings who are forced to fight in this conflict.

It's hard listening to my platoon sergeant saying, "If you decide you want to kill a civilian that looks threatening, shoot him. I'd rather fill out paperwork than get one of my soldiers killed by some raghead." We are taught that if someone even looks threatening we should do something before they do something to us. I wasn't brought up in fear like that, and it's going to take some getting used to.

It's also very hard talking to people here about this war. They don't like to hear that the reason they are being torn away from their families is bullshit, or that their "president" doesn't care about them. A few people here have become quite upset with me, and at one point I was going to be discharged for constantly inciting arguments and disrespect to my commander-in-chief (Dubya). It's very hard to be silenced about this when I see the same 150 people every day just going through the motions, not sure why they are doing it.

[ Willy sent an update in early August ]

People's perceptions of this war have done a complete 180 since we got here. We had someone die in a mortar attack the first week, and ever since then, things have changed completely. Soldiers are calling their families urging them to support John Kerry. If this is happening elsewhere, it looks as if the overseas military vote that Bush is used to won't be there this time around.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Kyle Waldman
Sent: Friday February 27 2004 2.35am
Subject: None

As we can all obviously see, Iraq was not and is not an imminent threat to the United States or the rest of the world. My time in Iraq has taught me a little about the Iraqi people and the state of this war-torn, poverty-stricken country.

The illiteracy rate in this country is phenomenal. There were some farmers who didn't even know there was an Operation Iraqi Freedom. This was when I realised that this war was initiated by the few who would profit from it and not for its people. We, as the coalition forces, did not liberate these people; we drove them even deeper into poverty. I don't foresee any economic relief coming soon to these people by the way Bush has already diverted its oil revenues to make sure there will be enough oil for our SUVs.

We are here trying to keep peace when all we have been trained for is to destroy. How are 200,000 soldiers supposed to take control of this country? Why didn't we have an effective plan to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure? Why aren't the American people more aware of these atrocities?

My fiancee and I have seriously looked into moving to Canada as political refugees.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Anonymous
Sent: Thursday April 15 2004 12.41am
Subject: From KBR truck driver now in Iraq

Mike, I am a truck driver right now in Iraq. Let me give you this one small fact because I am right here at the heart of it: since I started this job several months ago, 100% (that's right, not 99%) of the workers I am aware of are inflating the hours they claim on their time sheets. There is so much more I could tell you. But the fact is that MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars are being raped from both the American taxpayers and the Iraqi people because of the unbelievable amount of greed and abuse over here. And yes, my conscience does bother me because I am participating in this rip-off.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Andrew Balthazor
Sent: Friday August 27 2004 1.53pm
Subject: Iraqi war vet - makes me sound so old

Mr Moore, I am an ex-military intelligence officer who served 10 months in Baghdad; I was the senior intelligence officer for the area of Baghdad that included the UN HQ and Sadr City.

Since Bush exposed my person and my friends, peers, and subordinates to unnecessary danger in a war apparently designed to generate income for a select few in the upper echelon of America, I have become wholeheartedly anti-Bush, to the chagrin of much of my pro-Republican family.

As a "foot soldier" in the "war on terror" I can personally testify that Bush's administration has failed to effectively fight terrorists or the root causes of terror. The White House and the DoD failed to plan for reconstruction of Iraq. Contracts weren't tendered until Feb-Mar of 2003, and the Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance (the original CPA) didn't even come into existence until January 2003. This failure to plan for the "peace" is a direct cause for the insecurity of Iraq today.

Immediately after the "war" portion of the fighting (which really ended around April 9 2003), we should have been prepared to send in a massive reconstruction effort. Right away we needed engineers to diagnose problems, we needed contractors repairing problems, we needed immediate food, water, shelter, and fuel for the Iraqi people, and we needed more security for all of this to work - which we did not have because we did not have enough troops on the ground, and CPA decided to disband the Iraqi army. The former Iraqi police were engaged far too late; a plan should have existed to bring them into the fold right away.

I've left the military. If there is anything I can do to help get Bush out of office, let me know.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Anthony Pietsch
Sent: Thursday August 5 2004 6.13pm
Subject: Soldier for sale

Dear Mr Moore, my name is Tony Pietsch, and I am a National Guardsman who has been stationed in Kuwait and Iraq for the past 15 months. Along with so many other guard and reserve units, my unit was put on convoy escorts. We were on gun trucks running from the bottom of Iraq to about two hours above Baghdad.

The Iraqi resistance was insanity. I spent many nights lying awake after mortar rounds had just struck areas nearby, some coming close enough to throw rocks against my tent. I've seen roadside bombs go off all over, Iraqis trying to ram the side of our vehicle. Small children giving us the finger and throwing rocks at the soldiers in the turrets. We were once lost in Baghdad and received nothing but dirty looks and angry gestures for hours.

I have personally been afraid for my life more days than I can count. We lost our first man only a few weeks before our tour was over, but it seems that all is for nothing because all we see is hostility and anger over our being there. They are angry over the abuse scandal and the collateral damages that are always occurring.

I don't know how the rest of my life will turn out, but I truly regret being a 16-year-old kid looking for some extra pocket money and a way to college.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Sean Huze
Sent: Sunday March 28 2004 7.56pm
Subject: "Dude, Where's My Country?"

I am an LCPL in the US Marine Corps and veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Mr Moore, please keep pounding away at Bush. I'm not some pussy when it comes to war. However, the position we were put in - fighting an enemy that used women, children, and other civilians as shields; forcing us to choose between firing at "area targets" (nice way of saying firing into crowds) or being killed by the bastards using the crowds for cover - is indescribably horrible.

I saw more than a few dead children littering the streets in Nasiriyah, along with countless other civilians. And through all this, I held on to the belief that it had to be for some greater good.

Months have passed since I've been back home and the unfortunate conclusion I've come to is that Bush is a lying, manipulative motherfucker who cares nothing for the lives of those of us who serve in uniform. Hell, other than playing dress-up on aircraft carriers, what would he know about serving this nation in uniform?

His silence and refusal to speak under oath to the 9/11 Commission further mocks our country. The Patriot Act violates every principle we fight and die for. And all of this has been during his first term. Can you imagine his policies when he doesn't have to worry about re-election? We can't allow that to happen, and there are so many like me in the military who feel this way. We were lied to and used. And there aren't words to describe the sense of betrayal I feel as a result.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Joseph Cherwinski
Sent: Saturday July 3 2004 8.33pm
Subject: "Fahrenheit 9/11"

I am a soldier in the United States army. I was in Iraq with the Fourth Infantry Division.

I was guarding some Iraqi workers one day. Their task was to fill sandbags for our base. The temperature was at least 120. I had to sit there with full gear on and monitor them. I was sitting and drinking water, and I could barely tolerate the heat, so I directed the workers to go to the shade and sit and drink water. I let them rest for about 20 minutes. Then a staff sergeant told me that they didn't need a break, and that they were to fill sandbags until the cows come home. He told the Iraqis to go back to work.

After 30 minutes, I let them have a break again, thus disobeying orders. If these were soldiers working, in this heat, those soldiers would be bound to a 10-minute work, 50-minute rest cycle, to prevent heat casualties. Again the staff sergeant came and sent the Iraqis back to work and told me I could sit in the shade. I told him no, I had to be out there with them so that when I started to need water, then they would definitely need water. He told me that wasn't necessary, and that they live here, and that they are used to it.

After he left, I put the Iraqis back into the shade. I could tell that some were very dehydrated; most of them were thin enough to be on an international food aid commercial. I would not treat my fellow soldiers in this manner, so I did not treat the Iraqi workers this way either.

This went on for eight months while I was in Iraq, and going through it told me that we were not there for their freedom, we were not there for WMD. We had no idea what we were fighting for anymore.

Will They Ever Trust Us Again? Letters from the Warzone to Michael Moore by Michael Moore, to be published by Allen Lane on October 7 at £12.99. Copyright © Michael Moore 2004. To order a copy for £12.34 with free UK p&p, call the Guardian Book Service on 0870 836 0875, or go to www.guardian.co.uk/bookshop.

© Guardian Newspapers Limited 2004
__________________
"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you
down to their level and beat you with experience." (c)TB
Met citaat antwoorden
  #2  
Oud 6th October 2004, 01:27
Davy V.H. Davy V.H. is offline
Oud-student
 
Geregistreerd op: Jul 2004
Locatie: Herentals
Posts: 559
Kan niet anders dan oprecht zijn he. Ik heb beelden genoeg gezien op tv van soldaten die het beu zijn. Naar huis willen. Ze zitten er al te lang. Het was niet hetgeen ze verwacht hadden ,...

Ze hadden de gedachte om na de val van Bagdad als helden door te straten gedragen te worden (Amerikaanse spirit?) , maar dit duurde maar even en nu moeten ze de stenenregen steeds ontlopen.
Met citaat antwoorden
  #3  
Oud 6th October 2004, 17:45
Pieterjan's Avatar
Pieterjan Pieterjan is offline
------
 
Geregistreerd op: Sep 2004
Locatie: Herselt
Posts: 344
Vrij normaal dat soldaten naar huis willen, maar dat is denk ik zo in elke oorlog. Ik kan me niemand (buiten dan enkele patriotten) voorstellen die met een blij gezichtje soldaat gaat spelen. Weer zo iets waar amerikanen goed in zijn: Eerst bieden ze zich in onuitputtelijke aantallen aan om in dienst te treden bij het leger, een jaar later sturen ze brieven dat ze het niet langer kunnen uithouden.

Vervolgens mijn bedenkingen bij de poll: Ik wil heus niet beweren dat alle elementen uit de films Moore pure propaganda is, maar ik ga deze zeker nooit aannemen als waarheid, zonder dat ik er meer over gelezen heb en er zeker van ben dat ze juist zijn. Laat staan ze in discussies gebruiken. Daarom dat ik ook de term Documentaire liever laat voorbijgaan aan deze film. Naar mijn mening is een documentaire een objectief verslag over een bepaald onderwerp. En nu mag je nog zo links zijn als wat, en zo compleet anti-bush zijn als wat, je kan er niet omheen dat Michael Moore meer Amerikaanse stemmen richting Kerry wil duwen. Ik hoop dat niemand het in zijn hoofd haalt om het tegendeel te beweren. Moore heeft zeker en vast bepaalde punten, maar hij brengt ze wel volgens zijn eigen visie.

Verder sluit ik me aan bij Davy, ze hadden zeer waarschijnlijk een triomf / overwinnings- tocht verwacht à la tweede wereldoorlog
Met citaat antwoorden
  #4  
Oud 6th October 2004, 18:54
Joris Verhoeven Joris Verhoeven is offline
Registered User
 
Geregistreerd op: Sep 2004
Locatie: Westerlo Tongerlo
Posts: 40
Ik denk niet zo zeer dat Moore probeert om stemmen te winnen voor Kerry, maar dat hij gewoon kritiek uit op de mensen die momenteel de touwtjes in handen hebben , zoals Bush en Rumsfield.

Hij zal de huidige situatie en zijn meningen daarrond natuurlijk met zo veel mogelijk spectakel en show aan de man willen brengen in zijn "documentaire", maar ik denk dat je niet kan zeggen dat hij hierover niet heeft nagedacht.

Hij doet dit juist omdat het publiek van de dag van vandaag dit gewend is en hier ook naar verlangd. Je maakt de documentaire spectaculair en er zullen veel meer mensen die documentaire zien dan indien dit niet het geval wou zijn, en Moore's doel is wel zoveel mogelijk mensen zijn 'filmpje' te laten bekijken. Hij wil de ogen van de wereld laten opengaan voor de praktijken die de Bush-administratie en zijn voorgangers uitvoer(d)en. En ik denk dat hij dat wel bereikt heeft.
__________________
'Sometimes I look at life from a different angle, don't know if I'm Gods child or Satans angel'
50 Cent
Met citaat antwoorden
  #5  
Oud 6th October 2004, 20:50
Kenny's Avatar
Kenny Kenny is offline
UDHR - art. 19
 
Geregistreerd op: Sep 2004
Locatie: Hier
Posts: 581
Of dit iets te maken heeft met mijn recente post over de leugens in Fahrenheit 9/11, dat weet ik niet. Het is wel toevallig.

Eerst en vooral al zeggen dat die posts waarschijnlijk wel echt zijn. Ik weet het niet, ik heb het niet gefactcheckt omdat dat nogal nutteloos is hier. Er is namelijk reden genoeg om te geloven dat er soldaten zijn die werkelijk tegen de oorlog zijn en die meer dan graag naar huis willen gaan.

Maar of dat werkelijk iets betekent...

Ik kan hier gerust enkele tientallen posts geven van Amerikaanse soldaten die ook in Iraq geweest zijn, en die helemaal niet tegen de oorlog zijn. Als je ziet dat de soldaten meestal nog Republikeins (en dus Bush) stemmen, dan zegt dat op zich toch ook al iets.

Als u me daarentegen vraagt of Michael Moore in zijn documentaires dingen verzint of verdraaid... dan kan ik niet anders dan JA stemmen, want het is gewoon zo. Wederom heeft Moore hier niks anders gedaan dan de anti-oorlog kant te laten zien...

Als je eens Googlet op 'Milibloggers', dan vind je vast en zeker een paar blogs van soldaten die voor of tegen de oorlog zijn. Niet meer dan normaal, en op zich zegt dat weinig.
Met citaat antwoorden
  #6  
Oud 6th October 2004, 23:21
Pieterjan's Avatar
Pieterjan Pieterjan is offline
------
 
Geregistreerd op: Sep 2004
Locatie: Herselt
Posts: 344
Bush is populair!

Heb deze boodschap al geplaatst onder Wereld - Politiek maar het is relevant dat ik ze hier ook plaats:

Weer een docu over amerikaanse politiek en bush in het algemeen, ik ga hem morgen kijken dus kan nog geen oordeel vellen. Voor de geïntreseerden wil ik deze gerust op een cdtje meegeven, is namelijk in divx formaat te bekijken op de computer. Heb nog cdtjes genoeg! Je laat maar iets weten.

Bush's Brain: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0403910/
Met citaat antwoorden
Antwoord


Onderwerp Opties Zoek in onderwerp
Zoek in onderwerp:

Uitgebreid Zoeken
Weergave Modus Stem op dit onderwerp:
Stem op dit onderwerp::

Posting Regels
Je mag niet nieuwe onderwerpen maken
Je mag niet reageren op posts
Je mag niet bijlagen posten
Je mag niet jouw posts bewerken

vB code is Aan
Smilies zijn Aan
[IMG] code is Aan
HTML code is Uit
Forumsprong

Soortgelijke onderwerpen
Onderwerp Auteur Forum Reacties Laatste Post
Suggesties voor een andere wereld Barst P.A.V. 0 21st November 2004 19:46
Tekstevaluatie voor cursus RZL in ILSO 2004-2005... Barst Artikels & Boeken 2 9th November 2004 18:35
"We moesten ons doodschamen..." Barst Cultureel-maatschappelijk 0 5th July 2004 04:00


Alle tijden zijn GMT +2. De tijd is nu 18:27.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.